Can you give a brief summary on the 2015 report 'The Benefit of the Doubt’ on improving the procedures for determining the age of children seeking asylum?

I co-authored ‘The Benefit of the Doubt’ report along with Elizabeth Beaumont as part of Young Liberty for Law Reform (now the Rights Advocacy Project) back in 2015. We wrote it in response to alarming reports about age determination procedures adopted by the Department of Immigration and Border Protection, with stories emerging of age determinations being made by inadequately qualified officials without reliance on substantive evidence. For most people, proving age can be as simple as producing a driver’s licence, passport or birth certificate. But this is often not the case for people seeking asylum, particularly unaccompanied children. When such identity documents are absent, age is determined on the basis of a multi-factorial assessment to establish whether a person is over or under the age of 18. If there is uncertainty about whether or not they are a child, they should always be given the ‘benefit of the doubt’ and assessed as a minor consistent with the Committee on the Rights of the Child’s General Comment on the ‘Treatment of unaccompanied and separated children outside their country of origin’. The report aimed to shine a spotlight on the fact that, too often, that was not happening and recommend reform to address the issue.

Can you talk more about how the age determination came to be discredited and how your report may have helped in this?

It’s barbaric that anyone would be detained in immigration prison camps and it’s horrific that Mehdi and Adnan were (and still are as of 21/12/2021) detained in detention for 8 years. Their experience – with 15-year old Mehdi assessed as a child and his 16-year old cousin Adnan (who was only a handful of months older than Mehdi) originally assessed to be an adult and subsequently determined to be a minor – is not isolated. During the writing of ‘The Benefit of the Doubt’ report, we heard stories that people making age determination assessments rely heavily on arbitrary factors – like physical appearance – and highly subjective opinions when determining someone’s age and often get it wrong. The launch of the report coincided with Loghaman, who had wrongly been sent to the adult-only detention centre on Manus Island when he was a child, being assaulted by a guard. The report, and the need for better age determination procedures to prevent children from being detained on Manus Island, was cited in coverage of that abuse and helped focus attention on the issue. We also adapted the report into an academic journal article that has formed part of the evidence-base discrediting a terribly flawed system for determining people’s age.

What work or projects are you undertaking now?

Since participating in RAP, I have worked in Aboriginal Legal Services, Community Legal Centres and am currently a Senior Lawyer at the Human Rights Law Centre. My role involves working in solidarity with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people and organisations to identify opportunities for strategic litigation, law reform and advocacy to eliminate racial injustice in the legal system. I had the privilege of representing the family of Yorta Yorta woman Tanya Day in the coronial inquest into her preventable death, and recommend that everyone follow the Dhadjowa Foundation and the work they’re doing supporting Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander families whose loved ones have died in custody. My work also involves advocating to close down prisons and shining a light on human rights abuses with a view to end mistreatment behind bars. This year, the Human Rights Law Centre has endorsed the Homes Not Prisons campaign led by FlatOut which is calling on the Victorian government to stop the expansion of the Dame Phyllis Frost women’s prison and invest the money allocated to the prison build into public housing. People can support the campaign by signing the open letter here.

Any last reflections on your time at RAP?

I participated in RAP and went on to be a member of the Steering Committee, a project co-ordinator for the inaugural Indigenous Justice team and also serve as Deputy Chair. Through the program I had the opportunity to work under the supervision of two excellent lawyers – Daniel Webb and Matt Albert – who have provided invaluable, ongoing support and encouragement to me throughout my career. As a member of the Steering Committee, I had the opportunity to develop leadership and other skills including managing the recruitment of volunteers, overseeing the monitoring and evaluation of projects and contributing to the strategic direction of RAP. I have made lifelong friends through the program and couldn’t recommend it more highly for law students and early career legal professionals interested in gaining a better understanding of law reform, advocacy and the role that people with legal skills can play in challenging discriminatory laws and oppressive systems. You can check out ways to get involved here.

Criminal justice is an area that often changes and adapts to the values of the time - what drew you to bail reform in particular?

When we spoke to our supervisors they said that bail was one of the biggest issues they had in practice. The new bail laws were brought in with so much haste and in response to some really highly publicised crimes in Victoria.

Like so many other "tough on crime" approaches, the laws have disproportionately affected our most vulnerable Victorians. We explored other criminal law reform options, but this one really stood out to us as a necessary area for reform, to which we may actually make a tangible contribution.

In researching this topic, what was has been the biggest obstacle you have had to overcome?

I think it was those highly publicized crimes I mentioned. Victorians were rocked after the Bourke St attack, and the reaction to the fact that the offender, James Gargasoulas, was on bail was the feeling that this could have been prevented.

We knew that it would be extremely difficult to change the public's mind that tough bail laws were not the answer in preventing crime. I hope that our report has helped show how locking people up is counterproductive in this pursuit.

You have now been involved with RAP for nearly 2 years, what has been the most surprising discovery?

So much of your Law degree, and then working in the legal profession is about working within the confines of the law. But thinking in terms of law reform is about looking outside of this box.
It is so creative and collaborative and feels so fulfilling to use your skills in this way. I knew that I would love this, but it has been surprising how much I have loved it.

What or where are you working on now/next project?

Our report is done, and now we are looking forward to organising a launch event, and keep the conversation going about bailing out our bail laws. I think there is some real momentum about this at the moment, and so many incredible people in Victoria who are working in this space.

Outside of RAP, I am now working at the Multicultural Centre for Women's Health, and I am learning so much about intersectionality. Working in the Health Education Team, we are helping to educate migrant women in Victoria about their health. It is so great to be able to empower women through education, and by extension to educate families and communities to try and create a more equal society.

Who's hands would you love to see the 'Bridging the Department's Visa Blindspot' report end up in and why?

We pitched our report to Kristina Keneally’s Office with a question pack surrounding the number of people living in the community on different bridging visas. The aim was for these questions to be pitched to Home Affairs at senate estimates, grilling them on why there isn’t accurate data collection and reporting on bridging visas and reasons why their systems can’t be upgraded.

I would love for these questions and our report to be mentioned at estimates and the government to be put on notice about the number of refugees struggling to live in the community without visas based on the current government's decisions.

I'd also love for Karen Andrews to be legally required to read every word of our report, particularly the section on the impact that being denied a bridging visa has on individuals and community organisations who support them!

What was the most surprising thing that you learned either in what you researched or in undertaking the RAP program?

I could never have anticipated receiving
the amount of generous feedback which was so warming to hear. When you you have been working and researching an issue for so long, you still have no idea what impact it will make when you send it off to the world. Hearing feedback such as Carina Ford lawyers “strongly recommend” our report during a lawyers meeting,

Receiving an email that our research has been a brilliant resource for someone's thesis and hearing from a community organisation worker that our report has been really useful for the organisation in understanding some of their clients situations was so surprising and amazing to hear. This wide reach and positive feedback is something I could never have anticipated and made me so proud of our team and what we have achieved.

Where are you currently studying/ working and where do you see your next steps taking you?

Currently I am working to finish my Juris Doctor at Monash University this year with three subjects to go! Besides casual work as a research assistant, I am volunteering as a legal caseworker for the Gender Clinic at the Asylum Seeker Resource Centre. I am open to the possibility of next year and have been looking into various legal roles including a number of judges associateships and graduate roles in Victoria and interstate. Ultimately I can see myself continuing my work in the refugee legal sector and advocacy space and it is undeniably my experience with RAP that has definitely confirmed this for me.